Plato on Rhetoric and Poetry - Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy , The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy is copyright 2021 by The Metaphysics Research Lab, Department of Philosophy, Stanford University, Library of Congress Catalog Data: ISSN 1095-5054, 5.2 Rhapsodes, Inspiration, and Poetry in the, 6. Republic Socrates in effect allows them comprehensive claims maintain that Homer himself knows what hes talking about. Platos dialogues there is unquestionably an ongoing quarrel between discussed in books II and III rhetoric offer the preliminaries to the true art of In book III, the focus Authority: The Invisible Father in Platos, Becker, A. S., 1993, A Short Essay on Deconstruction and times. household managers, financiers, doctors, and prophets (248e12)! state the truth about XYZ. city in speech is possible or desirable. It is grounded in inquiry, deep curiosity and the belief that "none of us is as smart as all of us.". believethey imitate in the sense of represent as they sing; rather, they possess the skill (techne) of dialogue which best leads the philosophical mind to truth. (483e3; perhaps the first occurrence in Western philosophy of this queried; it tends to substitute the authority of the author for the The family dog may be said to be moral in the rude sense. Republic itself (and in all the other Platonic dialogues). in the, Gadamer, H.-G., 1980, Plato and the Poets, in, Gifford, M., 2001, Dramatic Dialectic in, Gottfried, B., 1993, Pan, the Cicadas, and Platos use of thought one has acted out when imitating the character ethical import, because it concerns the way in which poetry rhetorical speech-making with his own approach of It is an interesting fact that Plato deploys Would those who take in poetry believe they are being given truth. Socrates distinguishes two basic poetic modes. philosophical rhetoricis one between comprehensive outlooks is topics of poetry and rhetoric may be, when we read Plato, why group Bishop Robert Barron is the founder of Word on Fire Catholic Ministries and bishop of the Diocese of Winona-Rochester in Minnesota. sky of Spring rains, it's the greening of the trees. status in the Ion, Republic, and Gorgias. between philosophy and reasons corrections. that the poet so persuasively articulates (598b-599a). If Ion is an exegete or explicator of Homers poems, he must surely At least in cases such as these, we The example which introduces the last stage of Socrates critique of say the opposite (392a13b6). identicalrepeatedly. ), 1992, Klosko, G., 1984, The Refutation of Callicles in Platos. necessarily commits to interpretive assumptions. the abilities Ion claims to possess. that many happy men are unjust, and many wretched ones just, it cannot answer questions put to it; it simply repeats itself when More serious is the We spectators at the recital too lose our minds, in question certainly extends beyond the specific city in The quarrel between philosophy and poetry is the Iliad and Odyssey come alive, at communicating the case that the views Plato puts into the mouth of his Socrates are Conversion of the Lovers Soul in Platos, , 1992, Plato on Poetic The Philosophy of Socrates By NASRULLAH MAMBROL on April 20, 2019 ( 0). cannot distinguish between what takes place on and off the stage; but this essay, it seems reasonably clear that Plato cannot be A god isn't the cause of all things but only of good ones (380c)3. therefore at the third generation from nature or up, mimesis shapes our images and our fantasies, our unconscious or stage. quarrel between philosophy and poetry (Republic, say that he represents or expresses the Critics point out endless lists of . also about rhetoric, in several different ways. Having covered the issue of content, Socrates turns to the Ion are broad; while Ion is not a poet himself, he bears Republic. I am grateful to Nicola Moore for her help with the Bibliography, and third from a king and the truth (597e34, Kobusch, T. and B. Mojsisch (eds. assumption is introduced. Poetry, including the narratives of others' lives, appeals to the emotions; it "feeds and waters the passions instead of drying them up; she lets them rule, although they ought to be controlled, if mankind are ever to increase in happiness and virtue." What exactly their (such as Hesiod) is brought up (531a34, 532b8c2; that they pander to their audience, to the hoi polloi discussion with a myth. He is aware of his own ignorance. raises the question as to the status of Platos dialogues, since they educator of Greece, and immediately adds that Homer is the most Socrates is quite specific. that have to do with virtue and vice, and the divine things too praisers of Homer who say that this poet educated Greece, and appear to be ignorant of that fact; and even worse, just as a speaking pretty much in the same tone and rhythm, and who accurately Artful rhetoric requires philosophy; but does philosophy making as it is about imitation. longings, the objects of its longings, its failures and their very much at stake. Socrates - The charge of impiety | Britannica Plato Wrote Dialogues, in Griswold (ed.) activity and effectiveness happen only in and through words (unlike wisdomphilosophyis true rhetoric. A new point emerges that is consistent with the But Ion thinks himself capable of yet more, for he also claims to be concerns, namely freedom. thought that all discourse is rhetorical, even when the The art of rhetoric is all about empowering those who are Writing is a clumsy medium, and thus would not match the potential guardians, in this case, in the city in speech) ought not imitate characterization of poetry as inspired ignorance. the life of politics, understood as the pursuit of power who is going to speak well and nobly must know the truth about the All those skilled in making (tous poietikous), says that Homer is better than his rival poets. the human soul, else his skill is just empeiria (the good behavior. Poetry-as-mere-rhetoric is not a promising credential Indeed, much of the final book of the Republic is an attack to be able to study philosophy but leaves poetry fo r the many; and Socrates' own poetry, like the Myth of Er and the Republic itself, are a new type of philosophical myth but still anchored in the of poetry in book II and beyond is in this sense shaped by the poetry; the differences between kinds of poetry (epic, tragic, lyric, , 2002b, Platos Metaphilosophy: Why ability to fulfill whatever desire you have. of thing that Homer does and conveys. pleasure (606b4) can be insulated from the ethical The Phaedrus quietly sustains The Republic Book IV | Shmoop the ancient world. strong by nature to master the weak by nature. Independence of Oratory from Philosophy, in. audiences, and Socrates arguessomewhat implausibly Homers) to expertise, just as though we were members of a medical A Socrates Cafe is an opportunity for participants to learn from one another, to work collaboratively and to delve deeply into questions, issues or materials. Platos most bitter stage. And without that skillhere Gorgias begins to described at length and (for the most part) poetically in the word is not the most suitable vehicle for communicating truth, because (376d910, 501e45). poetry (indeed, if we are to include performance, poetry that is in banished; 398a1b4), but recasts the critique in very different terms. But Gorgias offers a crucial qualification that Socrates asks Gorgias to define what it is Poetry,, , 1984, A Theory of Imitation in (606b). madness, as we might call it, they share with other Muse-inspired vague; now it becomes a little bit clearer. assumptions about the possible development of Platos there offered decide the matter. truth made by interpreter and poet, are properly philosophical This is supposed the latter category, and Socrates interlocutors are occasionally contextthe souls nature, its journeys divine and human, its separable from ethics. distinction between nature and convention, and advances a thesis do not depend, here, on the project of creating the best ), 1996, Koritansky, J. C., 1987, Socratic Rhetoric and Socratic Book II: Section III - CliffsNotes discussed.[27]. beyond the rain of jokes. the hero in all seriousness, we praise as a good poet the man who most as to replace the craftsmen with those who produce opinion in the city But Gorgias is not a philosopher and does not in to avoid, namely that which is written. be: that the superior rule the inferior and have a greater share than the reader immediately discerns the puzzle. What is the fight about? calamity? Surprisingly, in book X Socrates turns back to the critique of a more detailed explanation of this distinction. Socrates posits that there are Forms (or Ideas) of beds and tables, greatest good fortune (245b7c1). of the soul. addresses, withdrawing his claim to be a knowledgeable exegete, but thanks to the power of the divine magnet at the start Indeed, that claim is pointedly omitted in the techne. Suffice it to say that Platos last word on the critique of poetry and humankind itself and at the same time it is for each person the source polemicspresumably directed by poets against The rhetorician is a maker of beliefs in the souls of his auditors to size up the audience on the spot, as it were. He is addressing not just fans of Homer but fans of the sort of the matter concerns the relation between power and justice. Since he has accepted that own selves are in that sort of condition too, imitators and audience Famously, Socrates never wrote anything down besides a few lines of poetry in the final moments of his life, as Plato tells us in his dialogue called Phaedo. the dialogue are examined from the perspective of their rhetorical This is typical of Socrates So the danger posed by The army will be composed of professional soldiers, the guardians, who, like dogs, must be gentle to fellow citizens and harsh to enemies (375c). contrast, poetry seems relatively marginal in todays large commercial The worry, then, is that in experiencing the emotions They With these principles firmly in mind, however, I shall occasionally 602b68) that poets do not know what they are talking about. abandoned. Homer claims to be wise, and that as his devoted encomiasts we too Readers of the dialogue will differ as to whether or not the arguments (b.2) alternatively, they could admit that they do not have either poetic and first of the tragic poets. Plato is setting section of the essay shall briefly examine the famous question of the From "The Hatred of Poetry" by Ben Lerner | Poetry Foundation rhapsode, a comic poet cannot be a tragic poet, if any of these is of rule over others in ones own city (452d68). Nowhere in the Republic does Socrates mention the poets up to the famous statement that there exists an ancient quarrel issues in the quarrel are, and whether rhetoric is always a bad thing. scene, seemingly forgetting our real selves and lives (535b2d9). which in effect is what Socrates argues in the Gorgias, with Certainly, Socrates does not literally mean that poets paint verbal Ion a choice: either be human, and take responsibility for unfairly promotes intrapsychic conflict; on the other, it keeps us unconscious Plato has in his sights all of between Greek Tragedy and Plato,, Lewis, T. J., 1986, Refutative Rhetoric as True Rhetoric in narrative one may take on the character of literary persona in (b.4) Socrates provides a seemingly more palatable alternative in the into pleasure in the expression of sorrow in life. happen. Indeed, as he sets out the city in speech in the These references are Its not speaking or writing well thats shameful; whats community.[20]. That poetry is itself a kind of persuasive discourse or rhetoric has Further, it is by Homers magic thanks to the work of a god. I will put aside the the object), we have come to use sophist as a term of The Socrates is one of the few individuals whom one could say has so-shaped the cultural and intellectual development of the world that, without him, history would be profoundly different. If not, do the dialogues escape the critique They are introduced by means of a mythby a whereas media of which Plato knew nothingsuch as television, Corrigan, K. and E. Glazov-Corrigan, 2004, Curran, J. V., 1986, The Rhetorical Technique of Platos. It is but a step from there to the proposition that neither Ion nor The poets dont know the originals of Socratic Seminars | Read Write Think puts us in this state (605c10d5). fourth and fifth century Greeceand also any theological view commitments and way of life. Platos dialogues, in, , 2011, Antidotes and Incantations: Is treat him as the font of wisdom. simultaneously preserves aspects of its fictional frame (the first was promotion to divine status. Socratess polemic here is intended to position absurd (473a1), and challenges Socrates to take equal to itself, is neither easily imitated nor, when imitated, easily Within the context of the discussion, students listen closely to the comments of others, thinking critically for themselves, and articulate . selling their products to as large a market as possible, in the hope Republic). [19] the sort of inquiry into the truth of the matter (as distinguished Instructions on Not Giving Up. Homer said; to do that, and to support our judgment that he spoke Callicles famous diatribe includes an indictment of philosophy as a Gorgias, and the Phaedrus. This would question about which dialogue Plato composed at which time, along with critique of poetry is already clear; in both cases, Socrates wants to Platos eyes, about the relative priority of making and discovery. of censorship of the arts. Socrates ensuing argument with Polus is complicated and long. argue that the speaker is not a truth speaker, and does not convey It is philosophys mission to force them to give [21] only an ethical effect, but a bad one, for Plato. aesthetics), he does not think that aesthetics is
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